Town Hall Meeting Transcript
4/3/2015 12:00:00 AM | General
April 3, 2015
Bobby Dishell: Today we are here to work with the Athletic Department and receive feedback from students at-large. I'd like to introduce the Interim Donald R. Shepherd Director of Athletics Jim Hackett. Jim served as the CEO of Steelcase in Grand Rapids for 19 years. He is on the board at Ford and serves various other roles. We are lucky to have him here today. We also have Rob Rademacher (Senior Associate Athletic Director, Facilities and Operations), Darryl Conway (Associate Athletic Director, Student-Athlete Health and Welfare), Chrissi Rawak (Executive Associate Athletic Director, External Relations and Strategic Initiatives) and Bitsy Ritt (Senior Associate Athletic Director). Without further ado, Jim Hackett.
Jim Hackett: I moved from building seats to selling seats. My favorite time of year at Michigan -- I graduated in 1977 -- is right now when the windows open and the quads were blaring with music. I asked Bobby if that was happening now and he said no -- so what's happening? Hopefully tomorrow maybe the sounds will get turned up. It's my favorite time -- and it meant I was getting out of school soon.
I don't have anything to read you, I just want to talk to you. I want to thank my team, and my wife Kathy, she's there in the back. She is going to the game with me, so I told her to come on over.
I want to thank my team because they are working around the clock, just like you do when you're going to school. I really appreciate that. Part of the reason that Bobby and I set this up, is that I want you to think of this as your department -- it's your University and your athletic department. These are the people who are doing the work, and all of us can answer every question.
Have I met any of you before tonight, by a show of hands? Does anybody know my uncle or anything? Part of the reason I asked Kathy to be here is that she can verify the truth. We started dating when we were 14 years-old. We went to different schools and different colleges
Kathy Hackett: Don't tell them how old I am! (laughter)
Jim: We have two sons who live in different parts of the country. One of them is going to have his third daughter in the next week or so. The other works for Robert Downey, Jr. People always like hearing that, hearing how he works on movies.
I was happily finishing my career at Steelcase. I was relatively young when I decided to retire -- I laugh when I say that because I'm going to be 60 -- but relatively young for a business person to call it a career. We had dreams and things we were going to do. I got some advice from really smart people to take a year away from things and let the dust settle. Then I got a call from Mark Schlissel earlier than that year away. I was in Grand Rapids and I was seeing from afar what you were all seeing and doing here. When I was here in the 70's there was a lot of activism on campus and I loved that. I went back to this little town in Ohio and it felt like Ann Arbor was always on the razor edge of what was hot in the country. So when I saw this issue, I realized we weren't fighting for things on the outside world, we were fighting within each other and that's what it was.
John Lin -- Law School
My friends and I aren't big fans of the adidas alternate uniforms -- do you think we'll continue with that?
Jim: I think the individual game thing -- let's part that, there are two issues here. In my first months here, the question of which brand we wear is a big one. We've organized a project team -- and this is a secret -- to look at the question of the brands. There are three players here -- Adidas, Nike and Under Armour. We've surveyed students, and Darryl (Conway), he has the responsibility for what I call the training and healing part of the organization. He manages the current relationship with them. I'm going to let him help me with the question of why does Adidas, and why does Nike do these annual experiments with alternate uniforms.
My inkling is retail sales. Somebody wants that game jersey -- they already have one, but they are going to buy another one. Are we going to do that? What's happened is that Coach Harbaugh is going the other way. I learned today that all of our shoes will be black. He's making it more conservative -- Harbaugh-esque (laughter). We're letting him go -- he's the coach and he has his reasons for this. Darryl, why do the companies do this?
Darryl Conway: I think there is a retail component that was started in the NFL and NBA, you notice that they have alternative uniforms, as well as major league baseball, they do alternative uniforms and hats. I do think there is a retail component that started with the professional leagues and then Oregon started it in college football. At some point, it gets you on SportsCenter. And then people start to say "Did you see what Oregon was wearing today?"
Jim: They have 38 versions of their uniforms. That is a fashion business. We want the strategy to be that Michigan is smart -- that there is something smart about design, material science and performance in the product. Not that they won't be cool, but the goal is to not just be cool. The goal is to have some sort of advantage. Does that make sense? What do you guys think? What would you prefer? You're youthful, you like fashion.
John: I like the pure uniforms, with our colors and winged helmet. Don't mess with a classic look.
Jim: One thing you should know, if I did a histogram for you and I'd take you back in time when there weren't facemasks (on the helmets), you'd find there is an evolution of the graphics. They have refined (the wings) over time. You'd find that the helmet had more curl than it does today. One of the TED talks was about the design of flags. And they said that over history, the design of flags changes. There is more of a modernism that tends to take the curls and edges off of things. We're not working on anything like that.
Chrissi Rawak: I think the other element I would say, is that some of the players like it. As the coach, depending on your philosophy, and we can say that Harbaugh's is "classic Michigan", and I appreciate that but not every coach brings that philosophy to the table. So as Jim said, let the coach drive the culture with the student-athletes.
Jim: are you happy with him as a coach? (Laughter) I'm still wearing my maize watch.
Crowd: He almost got elected to Bobby's job!
Chrissi: Did you see his tweet? He's going to run next year
Jim: He loves being back in Ann Arbor. He loved being a student. His dad was a coach when I was here at Michigan, so I remember him as Jimmy. And he and his brother fighting at the Rose Bowl. He was nine or 10, and his mom had to break them up! He was a really talented athlete from a young age. I said today at a meeting in Detroit that he's really good. You know Bitsy has all of the other coaches reporting to her, and you can ask her about any of our coaches, but coaching is a sport and you need to have really strong points of view about yourself and the team. Leadership is about coordinating your team in a really precise way. They can have environments like this (speaking), but I won't evaluate him here. I'll evaluate him as a coach. And that's very good. We've got to keep our expectations. They just have to get the team right. But the stuff I've seen, I'm really excited.
Carlie Morrow -- LS&A freshman from Jackson, Michigan
In regards to football, we have the points system for the games. And you get more points depending on how early you get to the game. One of the problems and I've seen and I've talked with my parents and other Michigan alums about, is why isn't the student section full at the end of the game? People ditch out at halftime. I don't know if it will change with Harbaugh era. Have you considered putting an incentive in for people who stay for the whole game?
Jim: I'm going to defer to Rob and Chrissi about the point system.
Chrissi: We're talking about the Hail app.
Carlie: Some of my friends will come, scan in and then leave.
Jim: You answered part of it. If the product on the field is really exciting, people will stay. You know in my early business life there were no personal computers. People shared this big machines. There was no Internet, no mobile phones. So I got to watch that transform the business world. And my business served white collar workers so we had to be ahead of them. Then I come here and I don't think we've evolved with the way technology evolved. When I was a kid, you went to the stadium to get more information. It took the paper a day to right story, then you read the paper but you've gotten the information a day earlier. Now, you can stream it at the frat house. There is instant recognition of what's going on. I think the promise is that it's not just about points, there will be more information at the stadium. You may ask 'what will that be' and that's the fun thing to think about. What could I tell you while you are there that is even more than you'd get by streaming? Then you don't want to miss it because that's your incentive. How does the HAIL app work?
Rob Rademacher: The points can determine prizes and priority for seating.
Bobby: There are two uses. There are the HAIL points you get for going to any athletic events, like the WNIT game, or field hockey or gymnastics. You get HAIL points for supporting Michigan Athletics. There are also points for going to football games. And that helps create priority for student seating. Over a three or four year process we've been tinkering with it. The priority points you're talking about are in order to buy season tickets for the next year, to move your seats down in the bowl, you have to go a certain number of games and a certain time. That's how we've been working out the student season ticket packaging.
Jim: You can tell with our naiveté, that I don't think we own enough why it matters to you.
Chrissi: Those are active conversations we are trying to have, how we create the student experience. And that's something that we do together, we can't do it to you -- we want to do it with you. These are things we're going to start working on together.
Jim: So this design thinking, one of its principles is user-centered. When you said people are ditching at the end, that's what you observe and then you design for that. You do different things to say you can't leave! And we're not going to chain you to the seat. Incentives are a cool way, but the product is a cool way, too. Can I say something, and I don't want to sound sarcastic. What I don't want to do is more entertainment that is not football. That works in the pros, but you're in college. I think that college shouldn't feel like the pros, it shouldn't cost like the pros and it shouldn't be so polished. It should be a college experience. It's got to have an irreverence, and a zaniness. I want to have your feel first. That app thing feels like a corporate flight program. If it had bitcoins, I might be happier.
Carlie: Personally, I don't use the app. But I'm thinking about priority seating. If the points are accumulated at the end, then you wouldn't have people leaving early.
Jim: And that is interesting because you have people who game the system instead of using it. I'm not being insincere. Dave Brandon had a lot of experience with consumer experience and he talked to a lot of sports people. Paul Allen, who owns the Seattle Seahawks, and Dick DeVos -- he's from Grand Rapids and owns the Orlando Magic -- they do dynamic pricing. And when you walk in the stadium, because they have E-tickets, if you see an empty seat, you can request that seat in that instant. That's a cool idea. But what I don't want to do is disrupt the college stuff. So what I need to know is what does today's college student dig inside that space? You have to watch the media. Whatever students are doing, that's what the story is. The story at Michigan was they are sitting in the student section or they are fighting over the ticket price. We've got to come up with the next story. By the way, we have a really big schedule this year, it's going to be really exciting.
Albert Yerman -- sophomore, computer science
You spoke about how the Big house is our house. We come for game day and there are strict rules about what we can bring. I understand the security issues. Do you think we can open up the stadium on non-game days?
Jim: People used to go in and do snow angels on the field (when I was in college). I didn't do that. And there was an older gentleman who lived within in the gates in a house. It's true. And that was the security. For me, the fun thing about telling that is that it is a very college story. We're all smiling, right? Now the design problem is the security. We have dogs sniffing for bombs because we're in a world that requires that. I'd be open to ideas, to make it your house.
Albert: Could we play pickup games out on the field? For a few hours on a Saturday?
Yost for example has open skate.
Jim: We could start real simple -- just go play on it. And the proxy is Yost has open skates. Can you shoot baskets at Crisler?
John Lin: When I was a freshman and sophomore, you could go in there and eat lunch. Then when the renovations started, that stopped.
Rob: The stadium used to not be locked during the day. And during the construction, it couldn't stay open. Then we opened it a little bit after the construction but we had some vandalism and we had to keep it locked.
Jim: I'm interested and I'm listening and I like it. The thing is, would Bo let us? I played on this Tartan turf and it was like asphalt. They couldn't argue about tearing the grass up. There was a period during Lloyd's area it was real grass. We don't have the problem now with artificial turf.
Claire Yerman -- LS&A Freshman from West Bloomfield, Michigan
What are we doing to promote other sports that are not football and basketball? I went to a women's lacrosse game and it felt like there were 10 people at the Big House. If we are building a community to support all our sports, what are we doing about it?
Jim: That's a really good question. I want to give you three perspectives. In the past -- and I'm dating myself to show you how Michigan has evolved -- Title IX hadn't emerged to ensure gender equality was happening. Revenue sports got all the attention, and non-revenue sports weren't. The second thing is that I came in and I made a definite thumbprint on the decision that football needs to be really successful. I spent all my time on that, and a little on basketball and a little on hockey. But I talked to Hutch the other day, she won her 1400th game. Mike McGuire and I've had a few discussions. Bitsy runs all of those sports. I'm going to learn more about what they care about. To their point, is there a platform for those sports to expand? Let Rob tell you what we are moving toward, it's exciting what we're doing on the south campus.
Rob: Part of it is an experience and we are building that down on the south campus, building homes for our sports. Men's and women's lacrosse are going to have a stadium. It creates a right-size for the crowd. In Michigan Stadium, 100 people feels empty. If you go to a stadium that seats 2-3,000, and there are 800-plus people there, it feels more like a home experience. That's what we're building.
Jim: Do you guys know where we are talking about? Down on State Street and there is a Porsche dealer across the street and there is building there that will be torn down. In January 2018, it will open. And Claire, you'll be there.
Crowd: Will there be transportation down there?
Jim: Yes, and this is something I'd love to talk to you about. As a campus went like this (moves hands) and the campus went north -- are you on north campus?
Claire: I'm in south quad.
Jim: You're in south quad as a freshman? Lucky! I was in West Quad as a freshman. So anyway, that distance between north and south campus, we have a big campus. That can create isolation. The last thing I want to create is to have the student-athletes never come here, and you never go down there. So we're working on ideas. Later technology, are there ways we can build where you can hang out? Plus the intramural building's will be reconstructed. In the background in my idea, is something like telepresence or FaceTime on steroids. Can we create wormholes where you're over there, and I'm over here but we can meet at the wormhole. And you feel connected. If we think about the athletic setting as part of an area where this belongs, then it makes you feel connected.
Bitsy: You mentioned what we are doing to promote events. And I've been thinking about the teams that really integrate student support. The students make a difference. They are enthusiastic -- football, basketball, hockey, volleyball. It has been challenging to get other students out to support the student-athletes. You mention Hutch, and one of the premier programs in the country. This is really something special to see, such a high-level of competition. We just haven't been able to get students out to softball. IT's a little colder and that's not ideal, but even when it's warmer it's just not happening. So we are figuring out ways to get those interested in that sport, to get a group that's passionate about the sport, and leading the group. It takes a handful of people to get the momentum started. Then you make sure the leadership gets passed on to the younger generation. We have learned that you can't be too person-dependent, because once that person graduates, you're starting over. So really it's the identification of that person and making the connection with people on the campus who are passionate about the sport. We want to build fan bases, not just put people in the seats. You put people in the seats through promotions, and they are one and done. But when you're a fan, and you are passionate, then you come to the games.
Claire: I agree 100 percent, and I think there is another approach. I think we need to bridge the divide between students and student-athletes. I think there is a huge divide there. If students feel integrated with the student-athletes, I think they'll support them more.
Bitsy: That's an interesting comment because that divide is not something that I am exposed to. We'll have to learn more about that. How does that come up on campus? What can we do to help that? I do know from another perspective that I think student-athletes may feel it from their end. It's really important because you're all students at Michigan and you're all interested in pursuing excellence.
Jim: That's foreign to me, too, because when I was here, we didn't have a jock dorm. I was in Rumsey hall -- and it was really cool. I had my football friends and my friends. And we were known as football players, that branding stuff but I didn't like that tag. The divide happens because of the time differences right now. And this gets worse in the future because of the prime-time coverage of sports is going to be a bigger deal. Some of the students are gone from classes, and we don't have that figured out yet.
Bobby: One thing that could be helpful for figuring out students that played certain sports in high school, more likely than not it is on their application. Could we go through admissions to find out what population of the students played what sports? It could turn out to, 1 in 5 students here ran track in high school?
Jim: That's a great idea. And Rob and I are trying to figure out if we even charge admission for this new stadium. It's not so big that it would recover a lot of costs, and we would rather have you there, like Bitsy said, have a movement together, fun together. I've really enjoyed women's basketball since I've gotten here. I'm looking forward to watching it tonight.
David Hershey -- senior, aerospace engineering, West Bloomfield, Michigan
As a student, I think the best place to be at the game is near the band in the student section. I think it speaks to something bigger, it's a student thing and there is a vibe that comes from the band. And the thing that disrupts that the most to me is the music through the speakers. There are unique points and songs that do bring the students together, but when it interrupts the band, it gets in the way.
Jim: We asked Harbaugh when he was here for only 24 hours -- we were up in a suite before his press conference making a phone call. I asked him, "What do you want to do for warmups?" I told him that when I came here before to watch a game, I liked to watch the team warmup. But it was so loud, I couldn't just sit there. And I thought, well it's for the team. I asked him about it and he said "I don't care." I told him if he did care, he could pick the music. I don't think he wants the pre-game music
Chrissi: I would say that we are in agreement and we're in conversations with band. One thing we need to recognize is that they can't play as much as we want them to, they need to rest. I realized that from talking to them. There's an interesting tension there.
David: I don't think silence is that big of a deal, that's when you can talk to people. Music is great if you don't want to awkwardly not talk and dance, which can be great.
Jibran Ahmed -- Junior, Ross School of Business
I want to thank you and your team for coming out there and being accessible. Is student engagement the new large initiative you are looking to champion in the next year?
Jim: That's a really good question. If I said yes to student engagement, what would be evidence to you that it's actually happening.
Jibran: I think this is an example of it.
Jim: This is our house. I don't want to say tonight is science, because we're all from Michigan, so that's not very scientific. But the passion is really high. I don't want to say tonight is the definitive science of what we're going to do, but we're listening. All of these projects and the technology take time. Rob will tell you that this is a small city every Saturday -- with 100,000 people. So when we implement something, it has to work. In terms of large-scale things, are we talking all sports in the department?
Bitsy: I think the new performance center, and leadership development along with career preparation and other avenues that we're partnering with on campus are what we continue to focus on, and those are meaningful.
Jim: I'm thinking of the stuff that isn't promotion. I'll take you somewhere. I feel strongly that we ought to have an innovation lab for performance. What school are you in?
Jibran: Business
Jim: And we've got computer science over here. So if I came to the two of you with a problem of big data, I'd love to have big data in athletics. Not affecting privacy, but just the opposite -- for game theory and teaching. I want to see the innovation of technology. Darryl and I had a meeting with the head of research on campus, and they want to do R&D with us. That was like music to my ears. I look out here and there are so many smart people out here.
Darryl: We have a project going on, that is called "project perform" and it's a holistic approach and the goal is to build a better student-athlete from all sides, and that means from the academic side, leadership side and what they do on the field. We want to be better at predicting injuries, how they recover, to help our coaches and team members train them properly.
Chrissi: What I would say is that we want to be really clear about Michigan Athletics and how it connects to our University. We don't exist without the University of Michigan. It goes back to a comment Jim has made -- we want to be the Apple of college athletics. It's how we engage with all of our constituents. Our number one is our students, but there are others that we have to build relationships with and repair relationships with. It's an ongoing process. But it is a "with" conversation, it's something we're going to do together. What I would appreciate is staying in touch with all of you.
We are going to build project rooms, and we need all of you to be at the table with us. If you're willing to give your time and your thoughts, it will help us be the best athletic department for and with our students.
Jim: I've been talking to you about design thinking, and the guy who is like my best friend. He founded IDO and Steelcase bought them 20 years ago. He started the design program at Stanford. Steve Jobs was his best friend, and Kathy and I went to the wedding. I met Steve Jobs with my wife Kathy at that wedding. Steve wasn't back at Apple then. I remember running Steelcase and wanting to run it in the way we are talking now. Steve came out with the "think different" campaign. John Lennon, he was an icon in my area for being against the system but he was beloved, in that campaign -- Nelson Mandela was another one in the ads.
In my generation, I loved the business of being a radical thinking, think differently. Not because of the ego, but that's who we out to be. I don't think Michigan is pushing it enough. And that starts with you. Push around the edges. I'm not talking about the stuff that will make Royster unhappy. Co-opt us, we get to help you get to what you're trying do.
You have to be the creative force, not me. I'll used words, and Kathy will tell me that you were rolling your eyes when I was talking because I'm 60. I've got to get in touch with how you think. We want to be hip and cool, because this is college.
I'll leave you with this thought. I called the athletic director at Duke, Kevin White. He's famous, he's been a really good athletic director. I called him and said it's Jim from Michigan, and I need some feedback. I asked him some questions about approaching different companies. He just paused. He said there are three bands that these people will lay down for, and one of them is Michigan. This is a rare time for us, and we've got to get it right.
You didn't like the way it was going. Fair? We've got to get it back. The fans are coming to watch you and the players, it's not the other way around. We need your help. We are not designing the experience for the people in the boxes. We love them and they are awesome. They went to college once, and that's why they come back. They reminisce and sing along. The college experience just washes over you.
This is an encouragement. You left me with a lot of challenges. Here's one for you: bring that back. We've got the new coach and the first game is coming up.
We're going to support the women's basketball team now so we've got to run. Bobby, thank you, and thank all of you.
